It is said that the most important character traits are taken from the family home. What are your recollections of your home, your city?
First and foremost, Wrocław. This is a city where people are from everywhere, but no one is from here. Another thing – it was a sea of rubble. Consequently, I saw the city being rebuilt. Today, Germans arriving in Wrocław are in awe of the beautiful, historic city. And I tell them – you were the ones to destroy it, and we had to rebuild it all, and even build anew, not forgetting the “historical monuments”. Many of these “monuments” were designed by my father’s colleagues. In this day and age, everyone marvels at them, but nobody knows what these “historical monuments” are. How can you tell? For instance, windows are all on one level.
And then there are the human aspects.... Apparently, we are all Poles. But when we meet together in Wrocław, and someone says “we Poles”, suddenly it turns out that this gentleman is from France, this one from Belarus, and this one comes from Ukraine. You have to be very restrained. Someone came from the East and had a telling accent, someone from Kraków used unusual phrases. At my school, the teachers taught us to speak the Polish language correctly.
My family... well, half of what they said was more or less true. My mother only revealed in the mid-1970s that she took part in the Warsaw Rising. She was hiding this fact her entire life and only when Gierek came to power, and the veterans started to be revered, she decided to come clean. My father, on the other hand, came from the East, so there was a problem, as they deported everyone to Siberia apart from them. My father explained to me later that there was always a padlock hanging on the door, and when the members of the Security Service (SB) used to come, they were convinced that there was no one inside, although it was possible to open the door. I was gradually told various stories, for example, one that my grandfather was supposed to have been a minister of culture in the Belarusian government as devised by Germans.
What influenced the choice of your career?
I inherited this interest from my father. When I was five years old, my father used to say “Because I’m interested in urbanism”, so maybe that was the reason for my interest in Orbán...
Should the architect be more of an artist or an engineer?
He should be an artist. That is why our architecture is in such a bad state today. Because education is focused on structural engineers, and nowadays an architect is a combination of a structural engineer and an accountant. This is because the accountants tell us how much money they have. I was recently talking to my colleague, an outstanding architect, and asked him why the interior was so unattractive and he told me – you know, because I didn’t have that extra half a million zlotys to make it look nice....
Art is a medium. In the past, beautiful paintings were painted, and gorgeous things were being made, because it was an ideological battle. Today, television and virtual realities are sufficient, so art can be ugly. Nothing can be normal anymore. No new rectangular buildings can be built, they must be in the form of a “sail”, they can’t be “simple” because “simple” doesn’t sell. It can’t be “angular”, as there must be a dome and not a classical dome, but one which repeats complex mathematical formulas, preferably the Gaussian curve. The golden ratio principle was developed in ancient times. All Greek temples follow this principle in their design. We all wonder why it was beautiful and good, and there’s nothing we should be surprised about.
Urban planning is also a form of art. It is an extension of architecture, it simply concerns large developments. To give an example, if you are in Warsaw’s district of Ursynów, you can see that it was all properly designed, while when you are visiting a developer’s estate, it is immediately apparent that no heart was put into the making of the design, and all you can see is money...
When did Hungary begin to play a role in your life?
In 2012, when Orbán was at the foreground, and I was closely associated with Kornel Morawiecki, we founded “Polski Wrocław”. At that point, I decided that instead of learning about Orbán through the media, it might be better to contact Hungary directly. We then got our colleague Imre from the embassy to help us, and that’s how it started. I began to meet many fascinating people, and our cooperation started to flourish. My life is full of coincidences, although I could put it like this – coincidences are only proof that someone is keeping an eye on all this.
Do you think that the saying “Magyar and Pole, two friends so fine, together they fight and drink their wine” is still applicable today, in the 21st century?
In my opinion, this saying is infantile. As far as the essence of the saying is concerned, of course, it is still valid. But neither the glass nor the sword plays a role here. This is a completely different aspect, which can be discussed in the context of Saint Ladislaus, in the context of the Angevins. At that time, there was no talk of sabres or glasses; there were occasional conflicts of interest. There was also a higher sphere, that of religion and empires. The saying “Magyar and Pole, two friends so fine...” I would say that it aimed to “cheer people’s hearts”. The essence, however, lies somewhere else completely, and this, in my opinion, is described skilfully by Orbán. When I read his words, it is clear that he probably does not know Polish, but at times he is a better Pole than we are.
Thank you for the interview.